Christian Book Notes

This week, we are privileged to talk with Kevin Cross, author of Embezzlement and Building Your Financial Fortress is 52 Days both published by Bridge-Logos.

CBN: Could you please share your testimony of how you came to know Jesus Christ as both Lord and Savior? Please address in your answer your statement in Embezzlement that you came to know Jesus over a long period of time—when did you know that you were a child of God.

Kevin Cross:  I was raised in a strong Christian household, and I accepted Christ as my savior at a very young age, but soon fell victim to the same apathy that effects many who adopt religion because of their parents, wearing it like a hand-me-down shirt. I had my ticket to heaven, I could recite all the platitudes verbatim, shuffle through the requisite motions and wax eloquently, but I felt no connection to the Christian faith outside of the position it held as a backdrop for my social life. This indifference continued to fester inside me, until God took my twisted frame and shook it to its foundation at the age of 20.

In my hubris, I was stealing hundreds of thousands from my employer (the Sheriff of Broward County) and living a lifestyle of debauchery when the mafia and the FBI decided to come looking for me. Luckily, the FBI got to me before the mafia had a chance to do anything worse than extortion to me. I spent several days in jail sharing a cell with a killer. More importantly, I was sharing a cell with myself and I hated what I saw. I started reading my Bible again, this time as a seeker, and God’s words washed over me and gave me a peace amidst the chaos of my life. I rededicated myself to Him and embarked on a personal, intimate relationship that continues to change and grow as I strive to align myself with His desire. This is why I say in the book that I came to know Him over a long period of time – I was always his child and he was always my savior, but I feel making Him the true Lord of my life was, and is, an everyday endeavor.

CBN: You say in your book that you do not know who turned you in to the police.  Can you explain how and why you are grateful for that?

Kevin:  C.S. Lewis famously said in The Problem of Pain, “God whispers to us in our pleasures, speaks in our conscience, but shouts in our pains; it is His megaphone to rouse a deaf world.” God had been whispering to me as I used my ill-gotten gains for my own pleasures, he even spoke up a few times in my conscience, but that anonymous tipper was God shouting in his megaphone to finally wake me from my egotistical stupor. Who knows what would have happened had I continued down that impoverished path undisturbed?

CBN:  How has God used your past experiences to aid you in your ministry today?

Kevin:  Before the book, I treated my story as a sort of “scarlet letter”. I would tell people when they asked, but I did so with my head hung in shame. Now I use it as a “red badge of courage”. God has turned it into a powerful tool to talk to people who would normally write me off.

I once heard a story about two brothers who lived in a small town in the country. The story goes that both of these brothers were caught stealing sheep. For their punishment they were branded on the forehead with the letters “ST,” for “Sheep Thief.”

One brother was so ashamed that he left the community. Everywhere he went he had to constantly explain the letters on his forehead. He remained bitter about the whole thing and always felt he had been treated unfairly. He eventually died a lonely man and was buried in an unknown grave.

His brother, on the other hand, stayed in the community and tried to win back his neighbors’ trust. He did everything he could to show the people of the town that he was a changed man. He volunteered for community service projects, helped his neighbors when he saw the need, and did all he could to become the kind of man that he knew he ought to be.
Many years later a visitor came to town. He asked a local resident about the strange letters on the old man’s forehead. The resident replied that he had forgotten exactly why the letters were there, but that he thought “ST” most likely was an abbreviation for the word “Saint.”

I’m not claiming to be a saint, but God has allowed me to use my story of “sheep thievery” (or “sheriff thievery”), something I was ashamed of for many years, as a way to reach others and change my “ST” to “Stewardship Teacher”.

CBN:  Could you describe your ministry today?

My personal ministry is Account417, a non-profit dedicated to teaching others, using God’s word, how to have more at the end of the month and, more importantly, what God wants us to do with it to get the most satisfaction and true riches. We do that through our website, books, videos, counseling, and our event, Margin & Meaning. People can get more info at account417.com.

CBN: What is your role with Crown Financial Ministries?

Kevin:  I have a long history with Crown Financial Ministries and the incredible work they do. It started, of course, when I turned the dial in Dwight Lauderdale’s Jaguar and heard the voice of Larry Burkett. For those first years after my release, I was on a first-name basis with all of the customer service people there. I would call everyday to get advice and see what free pamphlet they were offering, eventually amassing a small library of Crown materials. When I became debt free, I joined Crown as a Counselor and Seminar Instructor, a calling which I followed for 18 years until I started my own non-profit, Account417.

CBN:  You have written a book entitled, Building your Financial Fortress in 52 Days, based upon your study of the book of Nehemiah. Why should we read this book? (I ask this because there are a ton of Christian financial books available).

Kevin:  A lot of books have been written about the leadership skills of my man Nehi, but as I read it with my usual financially-tinted glasses, I started seeing all this Biblical wisdom that could be applied to our finances. So I delved into studying Nehemiah and all the ways he inspires us to do money God’s way. The book is easily digestible and is meant to be read a chapter a day and reflected upon. There’s no heavy philosophy or yawn-inducing formulas and budgets. We tried to just make it an inspirational jumping-off point to let people know it is possible (and even liberating) to see ourselves simply as managers of what God has entrusted to us.

CBN:  Steven White is your co-author in both of your books, could you tell us who he is?

Kevin:  Steve is my main man, AV/IT guru, and partner in Account417. He does the behind the scenes stuff – websites, graphics, videos, etc.

When we were doing our Margin & Meaning Tour in a church in Londrina, Brazil, Steve met a Brazilian girl and fell head over heels in love with her. We came back and he immediately set to learning Portuguese so he could talk to her. When we were sitting in a room together writing Building your Financial Fortress in 52 Days, I would think he was editing a chapter, but I would peer around his computer screen, see this big grin on his face, and know he was really chatting with his babe! After 6 months, he decided he had to move to Brazil to see if it was the real deal, so he packed up everything he owned (which was not much – it all fit in two suitcases!) and moved to Brazil. During the year he was down there, he wrote what would become Embezzlement. I would send him hours upon hours (30-40 to be exact) of video telling my story and he would turn it into prose.

I was the best man at their wedding in December and they now live right down the street from me in Atlanta.

CBN:  Do you see any more books in your future?

Kevin:  Absolutely! Steve and I have a number of ideas in the air and have actually started one – Margin & Meaning. It will be a more practical how-to manual to building margin in every area of your life and using the margin to find true meaning. Stay tuned.

CBN:  How can we pray for you and your ministry?

Kevin:  We pray that the world will be receptive to the message that God wants to take the pain and heartache out of money and give us all joy and peace as we trust in Him (Romans 15:13). We never ask for donations for our ministry, so we always pray for provision. He always provides, but prayer is a part of that.

This week’s interview is with Simonetta Carr, a mother of eight, wife of one, and an author of 3 published children’s biographies with more promised for the future. When she has time, she blogs at Autosxedia and can be found on Facebook.

Christian Book Notes: Could you please share with us your testimony of how you came to know Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior?

Simonetta Carr: I was raised Roman Catholic. As I child, I took religion very seriously. I am quite an extremist by nature, so I didn’t just want to be a good Catholic, I wanted to become a saint! I remember reading a book about the lives of saints but most of the women became saints by either being killed or raped, so I changed my mind.

I met an American evangelist when I was 18. She gave me a Gospel of John and explained the gospel in very basic terms. That was the first time I heard about Jesus as my Lord and Savior. This woman was on a short-term mission and didn’t direct me to any church, so for several years I was very confused about many issues, including the importance of church attendance in the life of a Christian. Without a clear direction, I was easily swayed by clamorous reinventions of the theological wheel. This is one reason why I believe in teaching the history of theological orthodoxy to children.

In his grace, God led me to a Reformed church in 1999, where I realized the importance of belonging to a confessional church that preaches the gospel every week and administers the sacraments.

Christian Book Notes: You are currently writing a series of books entitled Christian Biographies for Young Readers. What led you to write this series and how do you choose who to write about?

Simonetta Carr: I started to write this series because, as a mother of eight, I realized that there were very few books on church history for young children, especially not a series of books emphasizing God’s preservation of His church and doctrines throughout the centuries. Young children learn their past as part of a family or of a country, but I couldn’t find any publications to help them to learn about their past as part of church family. There are some good books for older children, but young children need a simpler language and lots of illustrations.

With that goal in mind, I didn’t want to simply introduce a few heroes or heroines of our faith, without connecting the dots between them. I started with Calvin because it was the 500th anniversary of his birth, but I hope that, at the end of the series, children will be able to have a clear idea of the progression of church history from about the 2nd century onward. That’s why in every book I give an overview of the time period and of the historical and theological challenges these men and women had to face.

Christian Book Notes: You have already published a book on John Calvin and one on St. Augustine of Hippo. What can we expect next?

Simonetta Carr: I wrote a tentative list of titles, which my publisher (Reformation Heritage Books) approved. I will probably not write the books in chronological order. At least, I didn’t start this way. I am however trying to include at least one representative from each main time period in church history.

The next one is on John Owen. It is finished and is waiting for the publisher to finalize it and print it. After that, it will be Athanasius. I chose Athanasius because our children recite the Nicene Creed in church and it would be good for them to understand how and why it was written and defended. Athanasius is a very controversial character and this book is requiring much wider research than any of my previous ones.

Christian Book Notes: I am personally stoked about the book on John Owen. Why a book on Owen? He is arguably the most intellectual of the Puritans, what appeal do you think he will have for children?

Simonetta Carr: I hope they will love him! I couldn’t think of a better representative of the Puritan age. He was rightly called “prince of Puritans” and “the greatest English theologian.” His teachings, particularly those on the atonement, are essential for a correct understanding of salvation. Besides this, his writings are absolutely unique. Owen’s knowledge of the Bible and of the Christian tradition is impressive and clearly evident in all his works. Besides, his understanding of the human heart is remarkably deep and is communicated with an uncommon authenticity and immediateness. I have read Overcoming Sin and Temptation with my children (ages 10-16) and found it very direct and pertinent. I had to rephrase a few lines here and there, but overall it was well understood and kept their attention. They loved all the illustrations of our spiritual warfare! After all, this was originally a series of lectures directed to Owen’s young students at Oxford!

If nothing else, I am sure my young readers will understand the struggles of that difficult time in church history and the challenges men like Owen had to face.

Christian Book Notes: Have you written anything else?

Simonetta Carr: I have written a few articles for newspapers and magazines, and have translated many Christian books from English into Italian, including some volumes of Matthew Henry’s Commentary and some of Spurgeon’s sermons, and modern authors like Michael Horton, Andreas J. Köstenberger, and William Chapell. Two years ago I started to write a historical novel for the “Chosen Daughters” series, which is scheduled to be published next year by P&R. It has taken me longer than I thought and has definitely been a challenge, especially if you think that English is my second language.

Christian Book Notes:  Thank you for your time and may God continue to bless your writing ministry. 

This weeks interview is with Martin Murphy.  Martin has just recently started a brand new publishing company, the Theocentric Publishing Group.  This brand new publishing group is dedicated to publishing solid, Christian books.  If you have a book you would like to see published, check them out.  You can read reviews of Martin’s books here.

Christian Book Notes (CBN): Please share your testimony of how you came to know Jesus Christ as both Lord and Savior.

Martin Murphy: My conversion from agnosticism to Christianity took place when I was 32 years old. All of us have kairotic moments (a turning point), an antepenultimate moment, when something changes the way we think or we have an experience that changes the way we live. I was hospitalized for what may have been a life threatening problem and while I was in the hospital I started reading the Bible. My unbelief turned into faith in Christ and my life has never been the same since.

(CBN): Could you share a little more about yourself?

My wife was the religious person in the family, so she was in the background praying that I would become a Christian. After I was converted, I started reading the Bible and attending worship at a local church and going to every Bible study I could find time to attend. My appetite for understanding God’s word and discovering the truth about God was not satisfied, so I decided to pursue studies at a reputable college. I found Columbia International University , formally known as Columbia Bible College and Seminary, and spent four years as a full time student graduating with a B.A. in Bible.

Without any break I pursued my graduate work at Reformed Theological Seminary and finished with an M. Div. After seven straight years of education, I decided to consolidate my gains and began research and writing while I continued to preach and teach in the local church. I believe a wise reckoning of time is necessary to allow opportunities to develop from the knowledge God has given me, so now I devote much of my time writing books and posting essays on my web site Rational Christian Thoughts.

(CBN): You recently wrote a book about church growth. In it, you are pretty negative towards most church growth concepts. Is there anything good to be found in what they are doing?

First let me give you a little background. I was instrumental in planting two churches early in my ministry. I attended a church growth seminar and there I realized a serious problem existed that was intrinsic in the church growth movement. A very popular and well known minister held the seminar on preaching. He made one comment that turned me against the movement: “people don’t listen to preachers.”

That was in 1990 and I started reading everything I could get my hands on about the subject of church growth and especially the church growth movement. I compared what I read to the word of God on the subject of church growth and found serious conflicts. The emphasis among many of the advocates of the church growth movement is relational theology, managerialism, psychology, and worship that is “non-threatening” to the unbeliever.

The Bible speaks clearly about relationships among Christians in the two dozen of more one another commandments like love one another, teach on another, et al. The Bible speaks abundantly about stewardship, but it does not teach that elders, especially the pastor, should use unbiblical management to make the church prosper. There is nothing wrong with psychological analysis, unless the remedy is contrary to the word of God. The primary purpose of life and existence is to worship God, the way He desires, not the way that will make unbelievers comfortable. The one good thing that I find among the church growth movement advocates is their zeal to see unbelievers come to the Lord. Unfortunately, I believe they are doing it the wrong way.

(CBN): You have also published a pocket dictionary of theological terms. What prompted the writing of that book?

I had a seminary professor that gave a mid-term exam using nothing but theological and philosophical terms, names, and concepts. The student was required to define them using no more than two sentences. I started saving and defining unusual and important terms and eventually believed that other Christians, especially laymen, may benefit by having a book of those terms.

(CBN): Can we expect anything more from your pen?

If the Lord gives me health, strength, and a sound mind I plan to publish 10 to 12 books over the next couple of years. I’ve just finished the manuscript entitled “The Essence of Christian Doctrine.” It is written so layman or church leaders will have a summary of necessary Christian doctrine.

Most of the upcoming books will be brief commentaries on books of the Bible. I’m working on the first one now entitled “Religion in Reverse” and will consist of 17 chapters. The next one will be from 2 Corinthians entitled “The Ministry of a Minister.” Then I will alternate doing an Old Testament book and a New Testament book. I’d like to squeeze in a novel, based on my experience with churches, and finally I pray the Lord will give me the time to write a sequel to “The god of the Church Growth Movement.” It would be entitled “The God of Church Growth” based on my study and research from the Book of Acts. By the grace of God, D.V.

(CBN): If you had one chance to say something to anyone, what would it be?

I wish every preacher and every church member would read my sermon notes on Ezekiel 33: 1-11. I believe the Holy Spirit would use that text to bring about reformation in the church.

(CBN): Where can we find more about your books?

Yes, the name of the site is “Writing My Books.” It is so named because I asked my wife what should I name the website. She said “writing my books.” She said “every time I ask what you’re doing you say ‘writing my books.’”

This week, I am excited to introduce Jonathan Catherwood to the readers here at Christian Book Notes. Jonathan is a direct descendant of Martyn Lloyd-Jones. Enjoy this interview. You can my reviews of Dr. Lloyd-Jones’s books here.

Christian Book Notes (CBN): Could you please share your testimony of how and when Jesus Christ became your Lord and Savior?

Jonathan Catherwood (JC): I became a Christian at the age of 15. Up until then I had rejected Christianity for all the usual reasons (“Why did God make the world if he knew we were going to sin? How could everyone not go to heaven if faith is by grace and not an act on our part?”), but I was always very troubled by the historical character of Jesus Christ. If Christ did not exist, or one was of many in a failed line of would-be Messiahs, then how did Christianity grow?

Christianity had nothing to recommend it for those who were looking for powerful, problem-solving gods. Christ did not overthrow the Romans–He was killed by them. The Jewish leadership did not embrace Him, they rejected Him. He preached a Gospel of love that included loving your enemies, which was anathema to those living under Roman domination. Why on earth would a small group of Christ’s followers face rejection by their community, their rulers and often their families, and undergo tremendous persecution, for a man that they had thought was the Messiah but had actually been killed and buried. It made no sense to me.

On a theological level, too, as we will always be trapped by our understanding of time and space, I came, I believe, to understand why Christ had come to earth. One cannot ever explain nuclear fusion to an ant (to paraphrase that great evangelist Becky Molenhouse), but one CAN become an ant and communicate at its level. I risk sounding anti-intellectual, but the fact that I cannot understand something does not mean that it isn’t true. Christ, through His teaching, His miracles, His sufferings, His death at Calvary and His resurrection, demonstrated that He was the suffering servant that Isaiah had prophesized was coming.

I just concluded that I was being arrogant like Job, who wanted to have a court trial where God would have to account for Himself, or wanting to eat from the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil rather than being satisfied with the Tree of Life. Sin never really changes.  It was sin that was keeping me from Christ not logic.  So I confessed my sin and asked God for His forgiveness, which, as we know, is endless, even for me.

CBN: For those who do not know, you are a grandson of Martyn Lloyd-Jones on your mother’s side. Though he went to be with the Lord in 1981, can you share a memory or two of your grandpa?

JC: My grandfather had two daughters, Elizabeth (my mother) and Ann. My mother and Ann each had three children, so my grandparents had 6 grandchildren in all.  One of the wonderful things about my childhood was that we all lived within walking distance of each other in the London suburb of Ealing, so I grew up around my grandparents, Aunt and Uncle and cousins.

Unfortunately my grandfather never liked having his picture taken, so all the photos of him tend to show him looking very serious or stern, and as a grandfather he was anything but that! Therefore, I am happy to share a few memories of him.  When my siblings and I were very young, and he was still preaching at Westminster Chapel in Central London, we would go and see him in his study afterwards, and he would always have hidden mini chocolates for us to find.  During school vacations, which we tended to spend with our family in the country, he would endlessly play word games or croquet or snooker with us.

Possibly his greatest gift to me as a grandfather, however (my siblings and cousins will have their own thoughts, of course), was his infinite patience with whatever tomfool idea had taken hold of my teenage mind. When, for instance, I was very taken with a Buddhist mystic at the age of 15, it would have been very easy for him to have either dismissed it out of hand or to remind me of the biblical warning that to whom much is given, much is expected. Instead, he took me seriously, read the books, asked me to explain to him what I found to be interesting in them, and only then provided a counter-argument. In other words, he knew that the best way to engage with a teenager was to make him feel that he was being taken seriously. I often think of that time in my life when I hear that lovely old phrase “In the essentials, unity, in the non-essentially, liberty, in all things, charity.” Let us just say that he drew heavily on the charity leg of that stool!

CBN: The Doctor, as he is called by many, preached for 30 years at Westminster Chapel in London. His ministry reaches much farther than those 30 years in London thanks to the Martyn Lloyd-Jones Recordings Trust. Could you explain how and when the Trust came about and what is the primary mission of the Trust?

JC:  The Martyn Lloyd-Jones Trust has been around for decades at this point, thanks to the great endeavor of men and women who have wanted his ministry to live on. From an early date Westminster Chapel recorded sermons, which means that one can listen in 2010 to a series he gave over many years on the book of Ephesians from over 50 years ago.

The Recordings Trust holds the copyright to those sermons, and over the years, as technology has improved, they have done an incredible job in preserving the message from those original tapes in digital form and cutting out the hiss and crackle of the original recordings. The Recordings Trust is a UK charity, and it uses the proceeds of the sale of the sermon series to fund an expansion of the ministry worldwide. Many people ask why the sermons cannot all be free, but those funds are vital to fund the costs of the worldwide promulgation of the sermons.

CBN: Why did the trust decide to set up two separate organizations (not sure if that is the right word) one for England and one for the United States?

JC:  One of the most effective vehicles in recent years for getting the word out on the MLJ Ministry has been the Oneplace.com website. Oneplace is based in the United States, and is a wonderful repository for sermons by countless numbers of evangelical Christian ministries. As there are many Christians in the US who have demonstrated an interest in my grandfather’s ministry, a small group of us thought it would be worth seeing if we could make the Unites States ministry self-funding so that Paul Mitchell and the Recordings Trust team in the UK could use their resources to promulgate the ministry in the rest of the world while we paid for Oneplace.

In God’s grace and providence we were able to form the MLJ Trust, a US charity.  Our purpose right now is to raise enough funds to pay for my grandfather’s ministry to be on Oneplace, and to alert all those who have shown an interest in the ministry as to when new sermons are available for free download. The numbers of those who registered for a download at the beginning was under 2,000, but now it has expanded to nearly 9,000! All four Board members (Lane Dennis of Crossway Publishing, Russ Rice, a Christian film maker, David Lovi, a wonderful young theological student at Trinity Evangelical Divinity School and myself) are keenly aware that there are many excellent ministries that deserve funding, so our prayer has always been that if it is God’s will for the MLJ Trust to be a vehicle in the promotion of the Gospel that we should see an increase in the number of souls who register to download a sermon. To date we think we see pretty clear evidence that the ministry still has an impact and so is worthy of support.

CBN: What is the lasting legacy your grandpa hoped to leave? Now almost thirty years after his death, do you think you can assess his legacy?

JC:  Other family members and the thousands who have read or listened to his sermons will have their own point of view, but I truly believe that his legacy as a preacher is twofold. First, to focus upon Christ and not laterally, that is, at others. It is my own characterization, but if his sermons tend to focus squarely on Christ and the wonder of resurrection, it is because if one can get men and women to focus on Christ then they are focusing on the light, which is something that we ALL need to do, and can never fail to benefit from.

Or to put it more colloquially, one rarely persuades another person that one is right by telling them that they are wrong. When we focus on Christ we ALL fall short, and ALL of us are in need of redemption through his Son.  I remember asking my Grandfather once why it would be “fair” for one person to go to Heaven and not another, and his answer was that it was a wonder how any of us could go to heaven. It disarms those who attack Christians for believing that they are better than others, and helps to reduce the latent Pharisee in all of us (“There is no-one righteous, no not one”).

Second, he almost never refers to current events, politics or family, which I think is the primary reason why his sermons can still be listened to today without any difficulty across the globe. In a recent sermon I listened to he asks the congregation if they are surprised that he hasn’t mentioned what had happened in the world that week (it was the Hungary uprising and its brutal repression in 1956). He explains that the reason he is not discussing it is because if he is discussing politics or current events he is not preaching the Gospel.  His belief was that by discussing anything but Scripture one is shifting focus to oneself, and not the Gospel.  It was his same perspective with discussing family matters.

CBN: How can we support the ML-J Recordings Trust today?

JC:  Either the MLJ Trust in the Unites States or the Martyn Lloyd-Jones Recordings Trust in the UK would be extremely grateful for any contribution from a brother or sister who feels called to do so. If you are a resident in the United States then you can make a tax-deductible gift (using Verisign) to the MLJ Trust through our website.  The website of the Martyn Lloyd-Jones Recordings Trust in England.  Please remember that it is a UK charity, and so does not qualify for tax deduction purposes for US residents.

This is Part 2 of a two-part interview (read part 1) held with Drake and Christina Levasheff.

CBN:  In her journal entry dated July 31, Christina said that she “has been challenged by your faith.” Drake, could you share how you were able to lead your family during this time?

Drake: By the middle of July, we knew that Judson had Krabbe disease and therefore knew that there was nothing that the doctors could do to help him. The only thing that they could do was to provide care to make his slow death more manageable. But as I prayed and searched the Scriptures, I became convicted that the doctors didn’t have the final word—God did. So I pressed in to Him all the more, fasting and entreating him to heal Judson. And I urged our family and friends to as well.

I was and am very moved by God’s power and compassion as demonstrated by Jesus’ ministry. What I prayed, said, and did during that season was an outflow of that…combined with my desperation to care for and keep my son. In this case, standing in desperate, shameless faith and hoping in God for Judson’s healing seemed to provide an example and encouragement to our family.

Christina: Drake didn’t just lead our family during the season of Judson’s suffering, he was actually leading our Christian community, challenging and exhorting many through his own questions and convictions. While experiencing the unimaginable, Drake recklessly abandoned himself to God, risking possible criticism from others, but in turn, freshly inviting people, including me, into deeper faith.

I would describe him as a bulwark during this affliction; as he wholly threw himself into the arms of God through prayer, fasting, worship, and scouring the Word, he not only modeled steadfast trust but his example proved to be an invitation for others to do the same. Drake was leading a spiritual battle for the life of his son, and many were compelled to fight alongside him. Furthermore, I continue to be challenged by his faith—as do others!

CBN: For me, the entry from September 9 was the turning point of the entire ordeal. It was this entry that seemed to open your minds to the hope that the way God was going to release Judson from Krabbe was through death and glorification. Can you explain your thoughts as this became more of a reality for you?

Drake: Even at this point, we were pleading and trusting and hoping for Judson’s healing…we were still at this point unprepared for Jud’s death as a way of deliverance. In a way, this reflected our defiant response to everyone who was telling us that we should just accept that he was going to die and that God doesn’t do those sorts of miracles in our day.

It is ironic that for me, trusting/pursuing God in that way prepared me to accept Jud’s death when He did die. A lot of people were worried about me, worried about us when Judson did die…what would it do to my faith because I trusted and hoped for healing right to the end? For me, trusting God for Jud’s restoration here on earth actually prepared me to accept His decision to bring and heal Judson with Him.

Christina: This entry actually sprung from the multitude of reactions we were receiving from people who were concerned about us stepping out with such faith for such a colossal request; concerned for us, and even more so, concerned that God might look impotent if Judson died. At the time I wrote this, we still believed very strongly that God was going to restore Judson to health, but I felt the need to address the unease we seemed to keep rubbing up against as we risked believing God for such.

I guess this journal entry stemmed from my desire to address all the issues at hand while acknowledging that we did not ultimately know how God intended to glorify Himself through our circumstance, but we were being intentional, not haphazard, as we risked faith.

CBN:  Christina, you wrote in your journal entry on September 16 “Drake listened.” Those two words seemed to be two of the most important words regarding your marriage during this time. Can you share the importance of “Drake listened?”

Christina: You are absolutely correct! Drake’s willingness to listen to me has been essential for our marriage, especially during that season and it continues to be vital in our grief as well. I think we are all desperate to be heard and understood. And as Drake and I were experiencing the reality of Judson’s suffering so differently, it was even more crucial that we give one another the space to feel whatever was stirring inside without asserting our own judgments or trying to curtail the emotion. Having the freedom to voice our fears, frustrations, questions, and anger is critical to surviving hardship, and Drake has done well at offering me this type of freedom.

CBN:  Saturday, October 27, in a journal entry entitled Deep, Lasting Mark, you ask the following question: “What will be the deep, lasting mark left by this pain?” Can you answer this question now?

Drake: The deep lasting mark for me is the understanding that we live between the times. The remnants of the old world are still very much here, with disease, sorrow, and death. It’s a harsh reality that we all have been touched with! But the new world has dawned through the death and resurrection of Messiah, and we have experienced grace and comfort through the presence and the people of God. All of this makes me want to extend the same grace that I have received to those who suffer and to live more fully for the kingdom.

Christina: I feel like there are a thousand ways I could answer this question while there is also still so much yet to be understood. I believe God wants to awaken us in our pain; he wants to alert us to our dire need for him; my pain and anguish have taken my functional-faith and turned it into a desperate, yet life-giving, clinging to Jesus, the only real hope in my suffering.

CBN:  Can you describe how God has used Judson’s life in your life? What about your family and friends?

Drake: As I think of Judson, I’m reminded of what an extravagant, loving Father we have. His ways are beyond me…and have wounded me deeply…but I am grateful that He gave me such a precious, remarkable boy to be my son and has been present with us through the darkest of times.
Our family and friends have said many things. One of the things we heard again and again from friends and acquaintances was that praying for Judson actually brought them in deeper toward the heart of God. As they petitioned Him for Jud’s healing and for our endurance, they found themselves in deeper relationship with him. Another thing we had many people say was that God used Judson to encourage them to trust Him as One who answers prayer…including big ones that only He can answer. (Craig and Kelly Hill’s words in the memorial service [236-37] express one perspective on this.)

Christina: To tell you truth, this question brings me to tears because I cannot even begin to describe the depth of what God has done in my life through our son. The gift of Judson’s life has shaped me, the anguish over his suffering and death has reshaped me, and every subsequent breath is bound to him. Because of Judson I look at the world with new eyes, and I hope and pray they are Eyes that See.

I reviewed Eyes that See yesterday. It is definitely a book worth owning. As I read it, I found myself greatly moved both emotionally and spiritually. I also had some questions for Christina and Drake–Judson’s mom and dad. What follows is part one of an email interview. Part two will run on Thursday. Drake’s answers are in red while Christina’s are in blue (think Lightning McQueen and Sally).

Christian Book Notes (CBN) Could you please share your testimony of how you came to a saving knowledge of Jesus Christ as both Lord and Savior?

Drake: I’m blessed to have a very simple testimony. My mom came to Christ when I was about three years old. From then on, she prayed for me and took me to church. I professed faith in Jesus and was baptized when I was eight years old.

Christina: God clearly had his hand on my life through the influence of my parents who modeled a love for Jesus and raised me in the church. And although I can recall various points in my youth where I expressed my need for Jesus, I would venture to say that God was gradually calling me into an abiding faith as the truth of his Word took hold of my heart.

CBN: Could you share a little about your life together as a married couple?

Drake and I met as students at Biola University and were married in January, 1996. Since then, both of us have worked in higher education.

Drake currently works at Vanguard University overseeing enrollment for the graduate programs. He is also finishing up his dissertation to complete his PhD in Early Christian History from UCLA. Drake periodically blogs at STORYofJUDSON.com/drake.

Prior to having children I served as a college administrator and instructor, specializing in student development and learning enrichment iniatives. I now stay home to care for our daughter Jessie, and to write and speak publicly about our journey, specifically sharing Judson’s Legacy. You can follow my (Christina’s) regularly updated blog at STORYofJUDSON.com/christina.

Together we enjoy spending time with our Jessie-Girl, grabbing a cup of coffee, catching a movie, or playing games.

CBN: Your son was diagnosed with Krabbe Disease shortly after the onset of his symptoms.  Could you please explain what Krabbe disease is?

Christina: Krabbe disease is a rare, genetic, incurable, terminal disorder. It is one of several known leukodystrophies: genetic diseases that progressively destroy the white matter of the brain. Krabbe affects approximately 1 out of every 100,000-200,000 people worldwide, but 90% of these cases are early-infantile Krabbe in which symptoms begin between 3-6 months of age. However, Judson had late-onset Krabbe; this rare form of the disease affects 1 in every couple million children. He experienced completely normal development for the first years of his life, then just before age 2 ½ the toxic build-up in his system triggered the onset of symptoms.

Note:  You can read about Judson’s specific case at the website.  Stay tuned Thursday for part 2.  Trust me, you will not want to miss the second half of the interview.

I recently reviewed Holy Subversion written by Trevin Wax. Trevin has been so kind as to allow me to interview him regarding his book.

Christian Book Notes (CBN): Please share with our readers how you came to faith in Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior. 

Trevin Wax: I first placed my trust in Christ when I was very young. I remember speaking with my mom and asking her about salvation, and then calling my pastor, excited about the news. For those of us who were saved at young ages, it is often difficult to think of a “before” and “after” with regard to our conversion. So I like to think in terms of trajectory. What would my life look like today had I not trusted in Christ at that time? That’s when I’m overwhelmed by the grace of God, not only that he saved me, but that he saved me so early!

CBN: Please tell us a little about yourself regarding your family, where God has you serving in ministry, and where you can be found on the Internet.

Trevin Wax: I am 28 years old. My wife’s name is Corina. We have two children: Timothy (5) and Julia (1). I serve as Associate Pastor at First Baptist Church in Shelbyville, TN. I’ve been blogging at Kingdom People since October 2006.

CBN:What was the origin of Holy Subversion?

Trevin Wax: From 2000-2005, I did mission work in Romania, where evangelicals are a distinct minority. The evangelical witness was powerful because there were few of them and because they took seriously the call to be different from the world.

Coming back to serve in the Bible belt alerted me to ways in which evangelicals in America look very much like the world around us. So Holy Subversion is an attempt to call the church back to a life of costly discipleship that stands out for the glory of God.

CBN: Subversive is defined as “a systematic attempt to overthrow or undermine a government or political system by persons working secretly from within.” That has some fairly negative connotation to it. Why use that word and what exactly do you mean by it?

Trevin Wax: Subversion is often understood in the political sense mentioned above. Yet to “subvert” something can also mean to “undermine” in a more general sense; in other words, undermining in the sense of “putting something in its place.”I’m using the word “subvert” in the second sense. The only way subversion can be holy is if we are identifying the prevailing idolatries of our culture and then subverting those idolatries by putting them under the feet of the crucified and risen King Jesus.

CBN:Why did you choose the term Caesar to describe practically everything in the world today?

Trevin Wax: In the book, I begin by showing how the early Christians were subversive of the Caesar-worship of their day. They subverted Caesar, not by plotting a revolution, but by living the Christian life that declares there is another king, a greater king – Jesus. By using the witness of the early Christians as the launching pad, I then am able to point out several “Caesars” that are worshiped in our day and age, Caesars that need to be subverted, i.e. “put back in their proper place.” Money, Sex, Power, Self, Leisure, Success, Tolerance – these are the primary Caesars today that are vying for our allegiance.

CBN: Can we look forward to anything else from you in the future?

Trevin Wax: I’m working on a couple of proposals right now, both of which I’m very excited about. For the time being; however, I am glad to be spreading the word about Holy Subversion. I hope Christians and churches will take hold of the message of this book and then dive into a life of serious discipleship.

The following interview is the follow up reader Q&A.  You can read the first interview here and the original review here. The winners of the give away are announced at the end of the interview.

From Joe and John: Thank you for all of your questions and for spreading the word about How to Argue Like Jesus. If you’d like to read more, please visit our website, Argue Like Jesus, or join our facebook group How to Argue Like Jesus. You can also follow us on Twitter: Joe at @joecarter888 and John at @johnwcoleman

Martina asked: “Which of logos, pathos, and ethos do you believe that Christ uses most effectively? What is the evidence of this and why do you believe he chose this type of argument to make his point?”

John responds: I think the overarching message of the book is that Jesus used logos, pathos, and ethos effectively in combination; and good rhetoric requires the use of all three in a balanced way.

That said, I’m most drawn to Jesus’ use of pathos, particularly as generated through narrative and imagery. His language, stories, and values are, quite simply, beautiful. Our first chapter is on Jesus’ of pathos, and one of the more stunning examples is his “Sermon on the Mount”. In Matthew 5:3-6, Jesus says:

Blessed are the poor in spirit, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
Blessed are those who mourn, for they will be comforted.
Blessed are the meek, for they will inherit the earth.
Blessed are those who hunger and thirst for righteousness, for they will be filled.

In a single short passage, he uses a number of tools to reach his listeners’ hearts. He repeats phrases (“Blessed are”, “for they/theirs”) to create a rhythm and a cadence that’s memorable – a tool often used by sophisticated communicators like Martin Luther King, Jr. He reaches out to his poor, disenfranchised audience with shared values – his admonitions to the “poor”, “those who mourn”, and “the meek” are specifically for them. He offers hope, promising his listeners not the sterility of “progress” or “improvement”, but the beauty of “comfort”, “inheritance”, and “the Kingdom of God”. And he does it all while standing strong with them – experiencing what they experienced, suffering with them, and healing them. Jesus clearly understood how to craft a message with the beauty and power to persuade the human heart. Read more…

I recently wrote a review on the book How to Argue Like Jesus. The authors, Joe Carter and John Coleman, have agreed to do an interview with Christian Book Notes regarding this helpful book.

1) Could you please introduce yourself to our readers?

John: Right now, I’m a Masters in Business Administration and Masters in Public Administration candidate at the Harvard Business School and the Harvard Kennedy School of Government. My wife, Jackie, and I attend Hope Fellowship Church in Cambridge, MA, and we stay connected to our old church in Atlanta, North Point Community Church, via podcasts. My web presence has declined significantly over the past few years, but I’m an occasional writer, I still maintain a personal blog (infrequently updated) and I try to post updates about How to Argue Like Jesus at the book’s website, Argue Like Jesus.

Joe: I’m the online editor of First Things magazine and an adjunct professor of journalism at Patrick Henry College. My family and I attend Reston Bible Church in Reston, VA. We are active in the food mission helping to feed needy families in our area. I blog at First Things’ main blog “First Thoughts” and at Evangelical Outpost.

2) Could you each please share your testimony of how you came to a saving knowledge of Jesus Christ?

Joe: I have been a believer since the age of seven, when I gave my life to Christ and was baptized in my local church. From that humble beginning 32 years ago I’ve stumbled and struggled to develop a deeper relationship with my Lord. I’ve been blessed to beyond measure by a Savior who gave all for me.

John: I grew up in a Christian home in Georgia and Florida, and some of my earliest memories were of vacation Bible school, Christmas caroling with family, and praying around the dinner table. I first made a public commitment to Christ when I was in elementary school, but like so many people who come to Christianity at a very young age, my walk since has been long and winding. To me, faith is often as much about mystery as it is about certainty. The path I’ve taken has been a journey of exploration.

3) Why did you decide to co-author How to Argue Like Jesus?

John: The idea for How to Argue Like Jesus really arose out of a series of posts Joe wrote for his blog, Evangelical Outpost, several years ago on Jesus’ use of logic. Joe and I initially became friends through our blogs in 2003. We started blogging around the same time, and I quickly grew to respect Joe’s thoughtfulness and style. We talked for several years about writing something together, and when he approached me around Christmas 2006 with an idea for a book about Jesus’ communication style, I was thrilled.

Joe’s a great writer, he’d been incredibly successful with Evangelical Outpost, and his idea offered a unique opportunity both to study a passion of mine, communication, and to explore the words and actions of Christ. I believe the coauthoring was essential to our success. Writing a first book can be intimidating, but working with Joe kept me honest about making deadlines, and it was incredibly useful to bounce ideas off each other throughout the process. I think the end product benefitted from the different perspectives we brought to the topic.

4) There are many great speakers and rhetoricians throughout history, why did you choose to study Jesus Christ solely as a communicator?

Joe: To answer that let me first give the reason why we almost did not choose to study Jesus Christ solely as a communicator. When you focus on an aspect of Jesus other than His role as Savior and Reedemer there is the danger that people will think you are reducing Jesus to something less than the second member of the Trinity. This is especially true when focusing on aspects of Jesus’ humanity. Some Christians believe that any discussion of Christ that doesn’t include his salvific role is illegitimate. Although we’re sensitive to this perspective, we disagree.

We think it is possible to study one aspect of Jesus in addition to, not in exclusion of, his other attributes and roles. And in his role as a communicator Jesus was, as we say in our subtitle, “history’s greatest communicator.” Other speakers and rhetoricians could serve as useful models but no one has been more effective in getting his message spread across the globe and throughout every age in history (the apostle Paul and Mohammad are a distant second and third). Obviously, the role of the Holy Spirit deserves credit for this effectiveness. But we find in Holy Scripture a model of a communicator that is worthy of emulation.

5) The first chapter of your book is about pathos; i.e., emotion. In recent years, and one can only assume since the founding of the church by Christ, there has been an outcry against “emotionalism” whereby a preacher attempts to garner a “decision for Jesus” based on emotion. Yet, you say on page 19 that “Jesus Christ was an exemplary practitioner of the appeal to pathos” and then you prove that claim from Scripture. Where, then, would you draw the line in appealing to one’s emotion when speaking—especially when presenting the gospel?

John: Pathos has always been a critical element of communication. When the Greek philosopher Aristotle detailed his three essential components of communication – logos, pathos, and ethos – he acknowledged both the need to reach people on an emotional level and the positive role emotions play in human life and decision-making. We are emotional beings, and while we need reason to make good decisions, our emotions and intuitions can likewise inform those decisions and serve as catalysts to move us to action. All great writers and speakers – men and women like Martin Luther King, Peggy Noonan, and Abraham Lincoln – recognize this and use emotional appeals effectively.

The danger, I think, comes when people either rely too heavily on emotional appeal or use emotion to manipulate people. While we are emotional, we’re also beings gifted with reason; and when people complain about the emotionalism of the modern church, I think their complaint isn’t simply that pastors spend too much time on the hearts of their parishioners. It’s that those same pastors don’t adequately appeal to their congregants’ heads. Throughout history, Christianity has boasted a number of fantastic scientists and philosophers – Pascal, Augustine, Aquinas, and others – and the reason behind religion (a topic most recently explored by Pastor Tim Keller) is something deserving of further exploration. I think it’s incumbent upon the church and Christians to make the emotional and intellectual cases for Christianity in tandem. Both are important, and only by employing both can we effectively mirror the complexity of the people with whom we’re speaking.

6) Chapter two is titled “Logos-Jesus as logician.” Much has been made of the Greek word logos used in the first chapter of the Gospel of John and whether or not Christ is the root of all logic. Is there a connection between the logos and the logic you discuss in your book? Why or why not?

Joe: The Gospel of John’s use of the word “logos” in reference to Christ is endlessly intriguing. But since neither of us are theologians or biblical scholars we’d be hesitant to claim too much about how that passage should be interpreted. I think where I see the connection is in the third verse of John’s first chapter: “All things were made through him, and without him was not any thing made that was made.”

Because all things were made by and through the “Word” they have a structure and order that is comprehensible and internally consistent. Our minds—even though they are affected by the Fall—can still use reason because Christ has created us as rational creatures. Logic is simply the natural internal rules that apply to reason and our minds, just as natural laws such as gravity apply to our physical bodies. Logic is important because it is the rules of reason established by Christ himself.

7) Chapter six is about discipleship and communication. The last paragraph of that chapter reads,

It [discipleship] isn’t there solely to reach others for Christ, though that is a critical mission. It is there, more broadly, to help people—struggling, fragile people like you and me. It ended slavery. It subverted the cruelties of the Roman Empire. It is fighting poverty and disease in Africa and beyond. And it [discipleship] has the power to be the most revolutionary force on the planet if we choose to use it well (p. 121).

Could you explain that in more detail? It would seem to me that the discipleship you refer to throughout the chapter is rooted in the gospel of Jesus Christ and that that, the gospel, is the most revolutionary force on the planet.

John: Discipleship is one of the most exciting topics we explore in How to Argue Like Jesus. We see discipleship in two ways. First, there is Christian discipleship – the actual process of following Christ, reaching people with his message, witnessing to the power of his words and actions, and shepherding one another on our spiritual walks. Second, however, there’s the process of discipleship – the structures and methods Christ and Paul employed to spread the Christian message from a small province of the Roman Empire to the farthest reaches of the globe. With reference to Christianity, the two are inseparable. Christ gave us a model for effective discipleship and then commanded us to share the good news – a message Joe and I believe to be both thrilling and revolutionary.

But we also believe that process has wider applications, and Jesus’ model has been repeated by a number of modern movements, organizations, and leaders. The abolition movement in England followed the model closely. Effective training organizations – like the United States military – employ similar principles and techniques. And intuitively, we all grasp for many of the same tools Christ and Paul demonstrated in their own walks. Correspondingly, our chapter on discipleship shows how Christ and the early Christians employed certain principles to spread their message, then it takes modern examples and tries to show how those same methods might be useful in other situations. I’m consistently fascinated by how the methods of Jesus echo and have been echoed by so many other communicators and by how practical some of those lessons can be.

8 ) How can this book benefit the pastor in the pulpit or the Sunday School teacher in the classroom? How can this book benefit the blue-collar working man or woman or the stay at home mom?

Joe: The question “Why should I buy this book?” is always the toughest for me to answer. After all, if I’m not persuasive enough to talk people into buying our book on persuasion how effective can it be? But the best reasons I can give are because whether you are a student, salesman, pastor, or plumber this book will help you become better at arguing—and that arguing is a skill you should improve.

Unfortunately, the term “argue” has taken on an almost exclusively negative connotation. People tend to associate arguing with confrontation and disagreement. But the word really means “to persuade, to give reasons for or against a thing.” Every day we give reasons for our actions and try to persuade people to our point of view. Whether you’re a preacher trying to persuade people to give their lives to Christ or an employee attempting to give your boss reasons to give you a raise, you use arguments all the time. The purpose of the book is to learn how to be better at persuading people based not on what we as the authors can teach but rather on what can be learned from modeling Jesus. And since we all use argument and persuasion whey wouldn’t we want to learn to “argue like Jesus?”

9) Gentlemen, thank you for taking the time to take part in this interview.

Joe and John have graciously autographed a copy of How to Argue Like Jesus to give away here at Christian Book Notes.  In addition to the autographed copy, Crossway Books has given a second copy to be given away.  Here are the instructions to enter the contest:

• Ask the authors a question germane to the book using the comment box below–they have agreed to answer additional questions from you.  The winner of the autographed book will come solely from the questions that are asked (one entry per email address, please).
• Blog about this interview. Spread the word.  If you write about this interview and link back to this post (please email me the link via the contact form) you will get an entry.
  
• Twitter: tweet about the interview using @ChristBookNotes in your tweet (one tweet per day).
  

Every question, blog post, or Twitter post will be an entry to win the copy provided by Crossway Books. We will do our best to monitor as much of this as we are able–it is always best to take the extra step of contacting us if you link to the article–and will pick the winners on Tuesday, June 30.